D-Day Normandy

Great program on TV here, giving a real-time coverage of the D-Day battles

Excellent pictures.

Stephen Ambrose (of Band Of Brothers fame) wrote an outstanding account of the action at Pegasus Bridge, including many interviews and first hand accounts. Its a real must read.

The importance of the action cannot be overstated in that it prevented the German Armour to the east from sweeping down the invasion beaches and also prevented the eastern flank being cut off and pinned against the water way.

The entire operation of Overlord was so well thought out and complex that it was like a house of cards, no one card being more of less important than the others, all are needed.

When I was a kid I was interested in the combat aspects of warfare. Now I find myself fascinated by the behind the scenes work, the entire deception plan for Overlord is fascinating. So well planned that many Germans still believed it after Neptune was on...

We don't seem to be agreeing much lately Ken! :o)

You can't run a military operation of that size with every component representing a single point of failure and clearly not every component went to plan (Omaha beach for instance).

Pegasus bridge certainly represented a potential single point of failure, this was one of the reasons why it was the very first action of the operation (and chosen as the site for the 50th year commemoration of D-Day).

That TV show is online for UK viewers here D-Day, as it happens

No, we haven't Shack and it's all your fault

I think it's perspective and the lack of intonation with the written word.

You also cannot run an operation that size and have a single point of failure.

Omaha was know to be the toughest beach...we took it, the DD Tank failures didn't help at all...

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not belittling the Caen and Orne River bridge operation, I posted the pic remember, but if they failed it would've been tough but, through naval gunfire and CAS, the landing would still have come off.

Was it vital? Hell yeah...and I cannot fathom the pressure Major Howard was under.

OK your turn...

kilogulf59 wrote:

OK your turn...

:o))

Don't think anyone would see either as trying to belittle, especially in what should be the most respectful of sub forums.

As far as having no single point of failure in an operation that big, that is beyond the control of most military planners when the stakes were as high as they were that day. First and foremost amongst the single points of failure that day was the Allied Intelligence operation (which, fortunately, was massively successful), had the Luftwaffe and Nazi Armoured divisions been lying in wait then the day was over before it began.

The objective of securing a beachhead via opposed landing(s), regardless of the predominantly attritionist Allied doctrine of the day, is never going to be without potential points of failure. If using a manouvrist doctrine (as favoured by Patton and the Wehrmacht, and the predominant doctrine of modern warfare) the potential points of failure are going to be either higher or more salient again, but that is the nature of the beast and the trade off lies in the reward.

While both Pegasus Bridge and Omaha were the stuff of heroes, both were very different, especially in what constituted failure and the implications of doing so for D-Day (hence my using them for the example). Anything short of the D-Day objective on Pegasus (taking and holding or destroying the bridges) would've been an out and out failure, anything else a success. The Omaha beach D-Day objectives were not secured until a number of days afterward. The Omaha operation failed in its objective but in doing so did not threaten the overarching op which could've been the case had Pegasus Bridge been open to German Armour.

A point I should make however is that the failure to make the D-Day objectives was absolutely nothing to do with the blokes who were landed there, quite the opposite, and the fact that those objectives were later able to be met had everything to do with the blokes who were landed. Planners underestimated the strength of defences, the aerial bombardment was inaccurate and misplaced and the strength of the naval bombardment inadequate (strength, not quality, as some ships came so close that those on the beach thought they were being deliberately scuttled). The tanks intended for the initial wave mostly failed to arrive or landed elsewhere than planned and all reinforcements were choked into what few isolated foot holds were gained. The reality of the bravery of the GI's in climbing the bluffs and taking the fight to the Germans, and succeeding, is beyond words. Likewise the quality and character of leadership required given how the order of battle would've been broken into small pockets of men from entirely disparate units.

If it was a contrast of the scale of the bravery involved I would suggest that Pegasus Bridge was over-shadowed by Omaha, but if you compare the implications of failure to meet objectives for either of the cogs in the overall machine, then Pegasus Bridge is QED.

Amen to that...

Very poignant ceremories today...

Former Squadron Sergeant Major of the Rhodesian Special Air Service is quite a man, and a bit of a legend to say the least. During World War Two, Jock attempted to join the British military but was too young initially. At 18, he joined the British paratroopers prior to D-Day and jumped in to Normandy. On that 6th of June in 1944, Jock saw action fighting the Nazis near the Orn river. He was injured a few weeks later and evacuated back to the UK, later returning to again fight the Germans in Ardennes. Jock was captured by the Nazis and then escaped, again jumping into combat in 1945 in Germany. The good Sergeant Major also has an impressive post-war resume, including operations in Palestine (45-48), Cyprus and Egypt (49-52), as well as Malaysia, Singapore, and Java (52-54).

In 1955, Jock participated in the first Selection course for the Rhodesian SAS. In 1957, Jock took the reins from another notable World War II veteran, Stan Standish, as the Squadron Sergeant Major of C-Squadron, Rhodesian SAS. He remained in Rhodesia until the conclusion of the Bush War, and joined South Africa’s 5 Recce in 1981. Today, the Sergeant Major is 88 years old and most recently participated in a D-Day re-enactment by parachuting from an airplane at age 84!

Very fitting memorial to the British troops at Ver sur Mer...




Probably the best account of the campaign is given in D-Day the Battle for Normandy by Sir Anthony Beevor.